Straight from the horse’s mouth, here is what the UCB website has to say about this project:

Didn’t we just leave this party?

With a postseason that joyously ran long and a participation level that was through the roof, the United Cardinal Bloggers spent from the end of October until  just before Christmas rehashing and discussing.  Now, as the calendar turns to February, it’s time for us to take up the discussions again.

This time, however, there’s a twist.

In an effort to engage our readers and followers a bit more, we are encompassing the UCB Twitter feed (@utdcardbloggers if you aren’t following it) into the discussions.  Every day, the question that the bloggers are discussing via email will be also put on our Twitter account.  Answers that are received will be eligible to be added to the transcript when the blogger posts it.

To keep things organized, we ask that you use the proper hashtag when responding to a question.  To answer the first question, use #ucb1.  The next day, use #ucb2 and so on.  The hashtag will be listed with the schedule below.

Then, during the last week of the roundtable, we are letting you–well, turn the tables seems pretty cliche there, doesn’t it?  We’ll ask you to submit a question you want the bloggers to bat around.  The best one will be put into the system and the transcript will be posted here on this site.

So that sets us up.  I-70 Baseball drew the question that would be asked last Friday and posted on Monday, February 13.  After some thought, I crafted the following question for my fellow new media writers:

The collective group here is obviously one of the foremost knowledgeable on Cardinal baseball.  You know your in’s and out’s and all about the players.  So, I am going to ask you to look at something other than the Cardinals for a second…
Brandon Phillips, Nyjer Morgan, Johnny Cueto…the Cards have had a few “enemies” over the last few years.  At the same time that these three guys still exist in this division, there has been quite a bit of change with the other teams this year.  So peer into your crystal ball for a two part question:
The answers to these can be names that are listed above or they can be new names added to the list.  All I ask is that you stay in the Central Division with your picks…
1 – Who is the biggest “Cardinal Killer” in 2012 (ie who does his talking on the field and just seems to always do his best against the team)?
2 – Who becomes the biggest mouthpiece about the Cardinals in 2012 (ie who gets on your nerves because he hates this team and is going to end up with a Carp fastball in his ear)?

Let’s get into their answers, shall we?

Corey Noles: The Daily Statesman
 I think the biggest Cardinals killer may likely be Brandon Phillips. It sure seems that he feeds off of the boos he gets when he comes to St. Louis. The funny thing about Phillips is, now don’t stone me, that he would be a great fit for the Cardinals. Through this whole mess I haven’t been able to help thinking that about him.

As far as who is the biggest tool in the NLC, that’s a tough one. I would like to think Morgan had his comment shoved hard enough in his face that he will likely shut up, but I’m never surprised by idiots. Truth be told, I can’t think of anyone off the top of my head who will likely shoot his mouth off. Frankly, at this moment in time no one is in a position for smack talk. If I have to name one though, I’m going to go with Morgan just due to his general lack of class.

Daniel Shoptaw: C70 At The Bat
I’m with Corey on the second part–I don’t figure we’ve heard the last of Nyjer Morgan.  For a man that has multiple “personalities”, I can’t imagine a little thing like reality will deter him.  He might not be as covered, especially if Milwaukee doesn’t stick around with the Cards in the divisional race, but he’s the most likely candidate.

As for the “Cardinal killer”, I’m wondering about Brett Wallace.  He’s done pretty well against the Redbirds in his time in Houston and, while the Astros won’t contend, I could see him turning around a couple of close games and sending the Cards home downcast.

Rodney Knuppel: Saint Louis Sports
Nyjer Morgan is not good enough to be a Cardinals killer. That guy is a clown. Brandon Phillips, while a good player – doesn’t put up great numbers against the Cardinals. I look for Votto or someone else to carry that load against STL.

My answer to the Cardinal Killer goes to Aramis Ramirez. Granted, he will have to try to kill the Cardinals. I just think if he is healthy, he kills STL pitching. Now, with Milwaukee, he is in a pennant race(hope not), and the hate the Brewers/Cardinals have is at a different level than the pretty boring rivalry lately of Cardinals/Cubs.

Ramirez is 33 years old. I think he still has alot of baseball left in him. I know many people think he is washed up,or simply overrated, but the guy has a career .284 batting average, over 300 homeruns and 1,100 runs batted in. Without Fielder, he will need to be an offensive force for the Brewers. Now, if Braun is out those first 50 games – ALOT of the load will land on Ramirez, and if we remember right – he is a slow starter. The Cardinals see the Brewers several times early, so it would be advantageous to keep him in check early in the year, and maybe get off to a good start against Milwaukee.

As far as the biggest mouthpiece against the Cardinals. I think the Morgan and Phillips thing will hopefully die down with Matheny at the helm. Hopefully these two clowns are not a factor for this team. I think we will see less and less “hatred” with LaRussa gone. LaRussa did alot of things to bring on the hatred, and I don’t think Matheny will. So, I don’t have a good answer for the mouthpiece. I’ll go with Albert Pujols – as the Cardinals and Angels will meet in the World Series, and El Hombre will talk bad about the Cardinals :)

Bob Netherton: On The Outside Corner
There is one player in the NL Central that makes me ill every time he steps up to the plate.   It is Casey McGehee of the the Pirates.  If he played against the rest of the National League like he does against the Cardinals, he would already have a multi-year contract in place, buying out all of his arbitration years, and still be in Milwaukee.  The Cardinals have given up the most hits, doubles, home runs and RBI’s to the former Brewers third baseman.Fortunately for the Cardinals, McGehee’s offensive numbers are going downhill faster than a box of frictionless bearings.

Nyjer Morgan is like Mikey from the Life cereal commercials.   The youngsters might have to google that one, so I’ll save you the trouble.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgB25WBeBxA   The point is that Morgan is a punk with just enough talent to stay in the big leagues, but not enough to let his playing do the talking.  But it’s not limited to the Cardinals, he is pretty much a punk to all the teams in baseball.  His own team is just as likely to put a fastball in his ear if the Brewers struggle during a possible Ryan Braun suspension.   So we can scratch Morgan off the list.

For getting on the Cardinals nerves, there is a seemingly endless supply of such players over in Cincinnati.  Even though the Dusty Baker/Tony La Russa personal vendetta is not longer in play, there is enough carryover to fuel a brawl or two.   Something tells me that we haven’t heard the end of Johnny Cueto, just yet.

So my answer is Johnny Cueto and I’ve already put all of the Cincinnati games on the calendar, so that I don’t miss a minute of any of them.

Chris Reed: Bird Brained
If he gets enough playing time, I could see Ryan Ludwick being a thorn in the Cardinals’ side. You have to figure the Cards and Reds will play every game tough as nails if they truly are the best two teams in the division, so the maneuvering will be fast and furious. Whether it be a late-inning appearance off the bench or a regular starting role, Ludwick is a guy I expect to be hitting in big-time situations. And a lot of those could be against the Cardinals.

The mouth-runner is tougher to pin down. After last year, I’m not sure what Nyjer Morgan could possibly chirp about anymore but I wouldn’t put it past him. Phillips definitely has more discretion in his trash- talk, and certainly backs it up better with his play on the field (plus he’s in a contract year…yikes). I still maintain that if you’re going to talk the talk, you have to also walk the walk. Phillips can do that. Morgan cannot. I expect to hear more from Phillips this year.

Angela Weinhold: Diamond Diaries
As far as a “Cardinal Killer,” I always say Aramis Ramirez. It doesn’t matter how much he has declined, even when he has been having a slump it seems like all it takes is a visit to Busch for him to break out of it. Even when the Cubs were terrible (isn’t that every year?) I feel like the Cardinals find ways to get beat by the lovable losers a few times a year. Seems to me like Ramirez has earned a couple of those wins singlehandedly.

Of course, I have been accused of holding grudges more than once…

For the mouthy one, it’s Nyjer. The sad thing is he has never been an overly talented player, but his mouth keeps his name in the papers. It doesn’t seem to matter how bad *he* is playing, if the Brewers are near the division lead I expect him to find new and creative ways to run his mouth. Unfortunately the crow he ate last year can’t shut him up forever. ;)

Aaron Hooks: Cards Diaspora
The biggest Cardinal Killer? ALBERT PUJOLS.

We’ve been busy giving the Cardinals verbal fellatio over not having to pay 30M a year in 2021 to the Angels first baseman that we’re forgetting that the dude is still in his prime, pissed offed about how he thinks he’s perceived around baseball, and is still the best player alive.

Carlos Beltran? Nice addition. But if we’re thinking that he’s going to fill the shoes of Pujols, we’re mistaken. We’ve taken for granted the fact that NOBODY wants to see the Cardinals 3 spot come up in the order and they’ve played accordingly. Now? It’s game on. That’s going to hurt.

And Brandon Phillips will still be the biggest irritant. He loves the attention and with the Reds expected to contend for the NL Central, he’ll get the digital ink he thinks he deserves.

Dathan Brooks: Cards Tied For First
Morgan’s not much more than a mouthpiece.  The guy sells his face on T-shirts and stuff, and shamelessly promotes himself in ways that makes Bill look like a monk.  By comparison, and I might get some crap for saying this, but I see Phillips as more of a guy who is having fun with the game more than I see him as a true jackass, like Morgan.  And FWIW, I tend to agree that BP & Carp are similar in that they can both (accurately, I think) be described as “that guy who you’d love to have playing with you, but you hate him if you play against him”.

Cardinal Killer?  Bud Norris, who else?

Ray DeRousse: StL Cardinal Baseball
Cardinal killer? Has everyone forgotten Bud Norris? Actually, the Norris thing needs to finally end this season.
As for biggest mouth, I fully expect Nyjer Morgan to (spoiler alert) do something dumb now that his exposure is increased on that team minus Braun and Fielder. Someone that dumb simply cannot help himself.

Matt Whitener: Cheap Seats Please
1. Biggest Actual Cardinal Killer: I think it has to be somebody who can actually make a difference in a game with a direct benefit for his team vs. ours in the race for the division, so Bud “Big Train Jr.” Norris is out.

I think it has to be Phillips. He may not have the greatest overall numbers against the club, but he delivers when it counts (that walkoff last year still stings now) and that’s all you need.

A darkhorse here for me is Ryan Ludwick, I think he’s going to have some at-bats when it counts against us and will deliver. Same for Scott Rolen.

2. As for biggest mouth, Morgan talks so much that it just blends together and is like the hum of an air conditioner; it’s just always there, so it doesn’t matter as much.

For actual talk & backup, I’m going back to Phillips. Because he’ll talk everywhere from on-base to Twitter, but will still be an All-Star with our biggest competition in the division, so he’ll actually be backing it up. Big difference.

Nick: Pitchers Hit Eighth
Can I choose more than one “Cardinal Killer”? As in, any left-handed pitcher with a fastball that sits 87-89? Chris Narveson, maybe?

I think the biggest mouth in the division might wind up being Dusty Baker. With Tony La Russa riding off into the sunset, Dusty becomes the elder statesman in the NL Central, and is certainly no stranger to dust-ups with the Cardinals. I could envision Dusty trying to push some teams and managers around a bit in a division that the Reds should contend in. What will be entertaining is watching Dusty try to “school” Mike Matheny strategically (remember last season’s rain-affected start against Cincy with the Miguel Batista deke?) and still failing miserably and wasting three pitchers on accident.

Kevin Reynolds: Cards N Stuff
Hmmm…for some reason, I keep thinking of Carlos Lee as the Cardinal killer…and Joey Votto emerging as a mouth :)

But it’ll probaby still be Phillips and Morgan again.

Miranda Remaklus: Aaron Miles’ Fastball
I can’t just pick one! I think Ryan Braun, once he gets his stuff straightened out, will once again but tough against us. Probably the Panda from the Giants. And Eithier or Kemp from the Dodgers.

This one is pretty easy! I think Nyjer retains the title of being the biggest…. mouthpiece! Carp will nail him in the ear this season. I can feel it! Ha! I don’t think Brandon Phillips will be that bad. He was a jerk but he seemed to chill a little with the Reds losing ways. Almost humbled him! ALMOST! B.J. Rains lovely … bordering on homer … reporting of him has softened me to BP.

Mark Tomasik: Retro Simba
1.       Got a feeling Ryan Ludwick is going to pound Cardinals pitching this year. He likes being with Cincinnati and he’s been embarrassed by his performance of the last year or so. Got a feeling he’s going to launch some longballs against the Cardinals in that Great American Ballpark bandbox.
2.       Brewers still have a burr in their saddle about being kept out of the World Series by the Cardinals in 2011. Maybe Rickie Weeks takes the instigator role and earns the Carpenter fastball in the back.

Tom Knuppel: Cardinals GM
Nyger is a tool and will be the one that gets the fastball inserted into his ear.Aramis Ramirez is the Cardinal killer.Looks to be interested series’ with Brewers.

Christine Coleman: Aaron Miles Fastball
My opinion matches what many have already said.

1 – Even though on a different Central team, I think Aramis Ramirez will continue his Cardinal Killer ways in 2012 as a Brewer.

2 – My thought is the biggest mouthpieces of last season, Nyjer Morgan and Brandon Phillips, will continue in those roles in 2012 – mostly because the broadcast media (and particularly Fox Sports Midwest) won’t ever let those storylines drop. Look at all the games last year where we had to listen to Dan McLaughlin and Al Hrabosky going on and on (and on and on) about Phillips. And, even though his talking and tweeting amounted to nothing in the end last season, Morgan will just have to start back up in 2012 – and get attention for it as well. They’re both media whores who know how to play to the broadcasters … and those broadcasters are ever so eager to give them both what they crave the most: attention.

Daniel Solzman: Redbird Rants
I think it’s either Brandon Phillprs or Nyjer Morgan.

JE Powell: STL Fear The Red
For the first part of the question I am going with the consensus. I think Brandon Phillips is a great 2nd baseman and seems to hit well against the Cards. For the second part of the question, I am going with the consensus again.  Nyjer Morgan is a loud mouth who, in my opinion, will be fueled by the fact that he ended up watching the Cardinals on TV, not the other way around as he so incorrectly predicted. I look to see more of Morgan running his yap in 2012, loud mouths usually get louder when proved wrong.

No aspect of the 2012 Cardinals comes with more questions than the middle infield, where one position has no clear starter and one has a veteran with something to prove. Rafael Furcal returns on a two-year contract with the Redbirds, hoping to show he can still play at the high level he displayed as recently as 2009, while the team goes into Spring Training with an open competition for the starting second-base job.

If Furcal’s performance is an unknown, at least his role is not. On the other side of the keystone, there’s a different kind of uncertainty. Three players go into camp with a shot at winning time at second base: Tyler Greene, Daniel Descalso and Skip Schumaker. Any of the three could win the lion’s share of the job, or manager Mike Matheny could fashion a job-sharing arrangement among two or three of the contenders.

This is one spot where the Cardinals find themselves far from the top of the division, both offensively and defensively as it stands today.

Cubs second baseman Darwin Barney hit .276 in 2011, with a pair of homers, nine steals, 43 RBIs and 66 runs scored.  Barney secured the starting second base job in Spring Training and never looked back. A .238 batting average in the second half dampens any enthusiasm for this youngster, who hasn’t shown much power or speed.

The Reds exercised Phillips’ $12 million option on Oct. 31, but the three-time National League Gold Glove winner has long trumpeted his desire to re-sign with Cincinnati for many years.  Phillips, 30, has also been firm about his lack of willingness to accept a hometown discount to remain with the Reds.  Phillips recorded his first .300 season but the numbers weren’t all as rosy. His home run total was the lowest since 2006 and his 14 steals were the lowest since 2005. Phillips remains a quality second baseman but at age 30, it remains to be seen if he can climb back to the 20-20 level.

Astros rookie second baseman Jose Altuve hit .276 with a pair of homers, seven steals, 12 RBIs and 26 runs scored in 221 at-bats during his inaugural season.  Altuve was hitting .389 in the Minors when the Astros gave him the call to the show. The 21-year-old showed some speed and the ability to collect hits against Major League pitchers but his lack of power and elite speed will limit Altuve’s potential in the short term.

Brewers second baseman Rickie Weeks finished up an injury-plagued 2011 season with 20 homers, nine steals, 49 RBIs, 77 runs scored and a .269 batting average in 453 at-bats.  Weeks launched 17 homers in the first half of the season but suffered a serious ankle injury near the end of July and registered only 83 at-bats in the second half. The 29-year-old is an attractive asset heading into 2012 because of his ability to hit for power as a second baseman.

Without a lot of fanfare, this second-year player  produced a solid 2011 with .273 with 12 homers, nine steals, 83 RBIs and 76 runs scored.  Walker has settled in as a solid, but not spectacular second base option. Don’t look for major improvements in 2012 but at age 26 he could still make small gains. A  reasonable expectation for him and a solid season cound make him one of the few second baseman to collect 90 RBIs.

Schumaker, 31, hit .283 in 117 games last season, including a .299 mark after the All-Star break. He batted .381 in the playoffs and had the game-winning RBI in the decisive fifth game of the National League Division Series against the Phillies.

By the time 2012 is said and done here is how I see things shaking out amongst the NL Central second basemen

1. Brandon Phillips
2. Rickie Weeks
3. Neil Walker
4. Darwin Barney
5. Skip Schumaker
6. Jose Altuve

Looking ahead:

Descalso and Greene are likely slicker fielders, but Schumaker has established himself as a solid hitter for a middle infielder. Whereas at the start of the winter it sounded as though he was being removed from the second-base picture, later indications have made it clear that Schumaker can compete for the job.

Greene and Descalso both come from other positions. Descalso has played plenty of second, but in the Major Leagues, he’s spent more time at third. Offensively, he’s a bit similar to Schumaker, a line-drive hitter with some on-base ability but not much power. Defensively, he is probably a superior second baseman. But his versatility is also an asset that Matheny may covet.

Then there’s Greene, who sometimes sounds like the favorite coming into the spring. A former first-round Draft pick and a shortstop by trade, he has tremendous tools but has yet to turn them into dependable production at the big league level. Greene’s upside is the highest of the contenders, but of the three, he has proved the least in the Majors.

One advantage for Greene is that he is a shortstop, and there’s no clear backup to Furcal. If Greene doesn’t win the starting job, he could well stick as a utility player. Descalso is also almost certain to be on the roster for his positional flexibility, defense and pinch-hitting savvy, while Schumaker will be on as a utility man if not the starter.

I hated the steroid guys. Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire–a Cardinal; when I heard their names even one year ago, I couldn’t think of anything good about them. After all, they cheated the game, burned down the sacred pillars of the baseball history and record books. They shortcutted it, and deserved none of my respect.

Then I started doing this.

I used to have a much less successful baseball site for a few months last year, but I shut it down after and incidents that came days prior to me writing a piece calling the 2010 Cardinals quitters. It seemed obvious. I mean, how could a team in first all year tank the last month of the season in such ugly fashion?

Not long after, I realized I was Jack Clark. Before he was fired/quit at FSN, the ex-Cardinal ranted, “I’m really tired of watching the effort, that’s for sure… I’m seeing a pathetic effort… They won’t admit it, that they’re quitters…

“We’ve got one team here [the Padres] going for the title and we’ve got our team going for the toilet. They’ve got poopy in their pants. They got skid marks in their britches. It’s just the way it is.”

Adam Wainwright, cheated out of the Cy Young Award that year, responded in kind:

“Those were stupid comments. Hopefully he knows that anyways. You got a guy who likes to hear himself talk, that’s all it is. You notice in every big situation, whether it’s McGwire or with our team, guys like that always have their opinions out in the papers.

“When you say something like that, you have to be ready for the repercussions or the comebacks. Especially when people are in this clubhouse and we hear things like that and then we’ll see this person the next year and they’ll try to be our friends and laugh and smile and talk. It’s the very same thing that started that fight in Cincinnati. Some guy [Brandon Phillips] opens his mouth and talks a bunch of trash in the papers and then tries to come out the next day and be all lovey-dovey with Molina. It’s very similar.”

That was a big reality check, one that established the only “rule” I keep in mind when I write: Don’t write anything you wouldn’t say to the person’s face. It’s done me wonders; and makes me sound more professional than professional writers. In fact, I’ve tried to live by that as best I can with my speech and actions, and I really believe it has, if anything, made me a classier person and kept me from the dumps filled with rage-fueled bloggers.

I don’t know why it just hit me now, but that mentality has to spread to everybody in baseball–including the steroid users. So here’s my apology to all of them, especially McGwire, who did a fantastic job as the hitting coach of the league’s top offense this year. If I met you in real life, I wouldn’t immediately condemn you as a social outcast, so I won’t write about you like that either like I used to.

You did cheat, and your Hall of Fame credentials and records should be nulled in my opinion; but that is no reason to treat you like disgraces or as a bad person to the contrary of those who actually know you.

I have tried to unlatch myself from incorrect popular baseball opinion as best I can, but I regret to say that this area was one I didn’t let go of, until now.

Keep up the good work, Mac.

Last August the Cardinals went to Cincinnati for a key 3-game series against the Reds. You might remember it – it included some colorful comments about St Louis from Brandon Phillips, a pseudo-brawl, and a Cardinal sweep. The Cardinals won their next game against the Chicago Cubs, but lost the final two in that series, on 14 and 15 August. That started a tumble that saw them lose 13 of 18, and nine games in the standings. Beware the Ides of August.

This week the Cardinals went to Milwaukee for a key 3-game series against the Brewers. You will remember it – it included some frustrated comments about Milwaukee fans from Tony LaRussa, a sequence of ‘you throw at our guy, we’ll throw at yours’, and the Cardinals losing 2 of 3. The Cardinals once again approach the middle of August, and find themselves in a heated pennant race for the NL Central title. What will the outcome be in 2011?

It’s a strange coincidence that both seasons seem to be mirror images. The Cardinals are trying to fight through the challenge of a division rival with little recent playoff history,but playing with a lot of passion, and carrying a large grudge from years of Cardinal dominance. St Louis was unable to overcome the passion last season, despite a supremely talented core of players (Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright, Albert Pujols, Matt Holliday, Yadier Molina). Many in the organization came to believe the August 2010 swoon was personality driven – the club did not have enough character guys to pick themselves up when the going got tough.

General Manager John Mozeliak went out and reconstructed the roster because of the August collapse, and precisely so they could weather that kind of challenge in 2011. Lance Berkman was the biggest name signing amongst several players brought in (or sent out) to change the tenor of the clubhouse. The Cardinals were going to be better offensively, and have the team chemistry to fight through any adversity.

It initially looked that way. The Cardinals had played well and, even after enduring a 7-game losing streak in mid-June, found themselves in first place, 7 games over .500, on 1 July. Since that day they’ve been positively mediocre (13-15). They now sit 3.5 games behind Milwaukee. Unlike last season, in which they played Cincinnati only 3 more times after that August series, they still have 9 games remaining against the Brewers. There is adversity to attend to. Pujols has not been Pujols, and the team has endured injuries as well as inconsistent performance from the bullpen in the late innings, but all teams endure injuries and poor performance during a season. The elite teams, the ‘character’ teams, fight through it. The rest of the league succumbs to it. St Louis appears to be succumbing to it.

Despite all the front office’s efforts, this team is performing a lot like last year’s. And the Ides of August approach. St Louis has the time, the schedule, and the roster to write a different ending to this story, but time is running out. The team built to fight through any adversity is going to have to fight much harder than they probably expected.

August 10, 2010 was Jason LaRue‘s last day on a Major League field.

Most know the story: a fight that was incited by comments from Brandon Phillips the night before led to an all-out brawl that caused the mob of red-clad ballplayers-turned-fighters to crash into the backstop. One of the first ones to hit the wall was the Reds’ starter in last night’s game, Johnny Cueto.

Cueto started kicking–with his spikes on–at the two people closest to him: last night’s Cards starter Chris Carpenter and backup catcher LaRue. Carp got scratches on his back. LaRue got concussed and was rendered unable to play pro baseball ever again.

Cueto was suspended for seven games. One start.

The next time he was due to pitch against the Cardinals, he conveniently had family matters to attend to. But he made an appearance in St. Louis tonight. God knows what was going through the Cardinals players’ heads.

Carpenter remembered. He probably still has the scars Cueto gave him on that August afternoon in Cincinnati. He does remember what kind of impact Cueto had that day. After all, he had a front row seat to it all.

Maybe he was just carrying over his recent success. Maybe he was filled with the desire to beat that guy pitching the other halves of innings. Probably both. But he matched him for seven innings. Seven innings of shutout ball from each starter. There were close calls and amazing plays on both sides, but the score remained stagnant for both sides for seven long innings.

As the game progressed into the Fourth of July night, you got that tightness in your gut of pure excitement every time someone on either team made it on base. Both pitchers seemed extremely vulnerable and unstoppable at the same time. But one of them would stand, and one would fall. The one that would make it through had to be Carp. He couldn’t let that dirtbag shove gis team into a deficit in the NL Central standings. Not this time.

Carpenter finished off the Reds again in the eighth inning with 119 pitches right after his longest Cardinals outing ever four days ago; the score still 0-0. Then Cueto became the one who fell.

Colby Rasmus led off with a single. After Yadier Molina finally got a bunt down after five pitches, Cueto bobbled it and was forced to throw to first instead of getting Razz out at second. Skip Schumaker flew out to get him to third, bringing in Mark Hamilton who was hitting for Carp. With two outs, Mark hit a grounder to Scott Rolen at third, who slid to catch the ball and fire it to first in what is being called one of the best plays all year. One problem: Hamilton beat the throw. 1-0 Cardinals.

Fernando Salas had a one-two-three ninth, ensuring Cueto’s defeat as news poured in that the Brewers had blown yet another game, this time in Arizona. The Cards were now alone in first place while the Reds stood at 43-43 and a game and a half behind the Pittsburgh Pirates.

But most importantly, Johnny Cueto lost. He didn’t get throttled, chewed up and spit out in the first inning. No, he pitched a great game, got so close to beating Cincinnati nemesis Chris Carpenter. But he fell about one foot short. That was probably the best revenge of all.

Postscript: Hit me up at my site

Last August, it was a sweep to remember for the St. Louis Cardinals over the Cincinnati Reds. They came into town in 2 ½ game behind the Reds in the NL Central race…and less than 48 hours later, the team jetted out of town in sole possession of 1^st place. The sleeping “big dog” of the division had seemingly been awoken by the loud mouth of Brandon Phillips, who talked a big game before the series, then backed it up by going hitless in a 3-game dismantling at the hands of the Cardinals.

Most thought it would mark the turning point in the 2010 season for both clubs, but as it turns out, it was the way the two clubs responded to the sweep that made the difference. The Reds went on to win their next 7 games, while the Cardinals won just 1 of their next 6. That 5 ½ game swing was essentially the difference in the season standings as the Reds took the NL Central by 5 games when it was all said and done.

The Cardinals seemingly went from the highest of momentum boosts into an endless free-fall after that series…and it’s really hard to understand why. Matt Holliday played some of his best baseball towards the end of last season. Jaime Garcia, Adam Wainwright, and Chris Carpenter had dominated opposing teams all year. Albert was Albert. How did THAT team sweep the Reds, then win just 10 of its next 31 games?

Perhaps a better question is: “How will the players respond to this latest chapter in their renewed rivalry with the Reds?” Frankly, the Cardinals’ players should be extra motivated this time around. Reds closer Francisco Cordero taunted the dugout after getting the final out of the sweep. Brandon Phillips continues to taunt them. Johnny Cueto still needs to be punished for ending Jason Larue’s career. But the ultimate motivating factor should be this: “There’s nothing more frustrating in life than knowing you’re better than someone, but not getting the desired results.” If some you work with gets a promotion over you, and you think YOU deserve it, that puts a HUGE chip on your shoulder. The Cardinals are better than the Reds, and both teams know it. The Cardinals went 12-6 against Cincinnati last season. They beat the Reds 2 of 3 earlier this season at Busch, a series that would’ve been a sweep had it not been for Ryan Franklin’s continued inability to get people out. They had game 1 of this past series in the bag, only to let another bullpen meltdown do them in. So what if the Reds beat them down Saturday and Sunday? It’s baseball, it happens, you’re not gonna win ‘em all. Cincinnati caught Albert Pujols and Lance Berkman in the middle of slumps. They caught Carp and Kyle McClellan on bad days. Over the long haul, the Cardinals have the better team.

The Cardinals players should already have July 4^th circled on their calendars. That’s the next time they face the Reds…and it’s back home at Busch. This time around, they need to respond with a vengeance. We saw what happened last year… the Cards dropped 21 of their next 31 games. These next few weeks should help us get a true feel for what the 2011 Cardinals are made of.

After this three game series in Chicago, the Cardinals will travel to Cincinnati for a weekend set against the Reds. Now that Johnny Cueto has been activated from the disabled list, it will also be the first time the Cardinals will face him since the benches clearing skirmish that ended Jason La Rue’s career.

The Commissioners’ Office referenced the Roseboro incident as a guideline for determining punishment for the players and coaches involved in that unfortunate situation, and we have looked at that in a previous I-70 Baseball article. Now it is time to turn our attention to the Cueto incident, and see how the Commisioner did in this case.

August 9, 2010

The Cardinals and Reds had been battling for the lead in the National League Central since mid-May, with neither team being able to make much progress on the other. At the start of this game, the Cardinals trailed the Reds by two games.

There was controversy from the very beginning of the game, but not the type you would have thought. It was between two players from the Cardinals. A promising rally against a struggling Mike Leake had the makings of a huge first inning. As a result, Brendan Ryan ran down to the batting cages to get ready for his at-bat. A double play ended the rally unceremoniously, and Ryan had to hustle to get on the field in time to start the home half of the first. On the way, he couldn’t find his glove and chose to run out with one borrowed from a teammate. Just before Chris Carpenter was about to make his first pitch, somebody in the Cardinal’s dugout found Ryan’s glove and time was called. The volatile Cardinals hurler gave Ryan a glaring look as he switched out his equipment.

Between innings, Carpenter gave an earful to Brendan Ryan. Unfortunately for the two players, the exchange was captured on camera and replayed over and over.

The game was rather uneventful, and over before the last pitch in the fourth inning was thrown. Both pitchers were able to get through their first three innings without much difficulty. The fourth would be a different story as the Cardinals sent 12 men to the plate. When the final out was recorded, they had a commanding 7-0 lead.

Carpenter and two relievers would combine for the win, giving the Reds three runs in the late innings.

What the Cardinals did not know at the time were some inflammatory comments made by Brandon Phillips. He was speaking to a sports writer from Dayton, and took the opportunity to rip on the Cardinals.

I’d play against these guys with one leg. We have to beat these guys. I hate the Cardinals.
All they do is b***h and moan about everything, all of them, they’re little b****es, all of ‘em.
I really hate the Cardinals. Compared to the Cardinals, I love the Chicago Cubs.

Let me make this clear: I hate the Cardinals.

– Brandon Phillips, August 9, 2010

Oh, the Cardinals would learn of Phillips’ comments before the start of the next game.

August 10, 2010

Johnny Cueto would get the start for the Reds in the second game of the series. His opponent from St. Louis is the rookie left-hander, Jaime Garcia. Garcia being a rookie may have a significant impact on what was about to happen.

The Cardinals would manufacture a run in the first inning, thanks to a lead-off double by Felipe Lopez.

Things would turn nasty when the Reds came up to bat for the first time.

Brandon Phillips tapped Yadier Molina’s shin guards, as he usually does in his first plate appearance. Instead of choosing a more old-school approach of having his pitcher throw at Phillips, Molina decides to take matters into his own hands. He stands up and starts barking with Phillips. As the two exchange pleasantries, both benches clear and a mob begins to form around home plate.

Yadier Molina, Mark Wegner and Brandon Phillips

What happens next is captured in detail in the MLB Video Archives. You can see both the Fox Sports Ohio and Fox Sports Midwest broadcast of the event. In addition to the MLB video, our friends at Viva el Birdos have broken the event down into who did what to whom, albeit with the bias of a Cardinal Fan’s point of view.

It doesn’t matter if you are a Cardinals fan or a Reds fan, this conflict turned ugly. At the back of it all was Reds starting pitcher, Johnny Cueto. He was kicking Cardinals players repeatedly – and while still wearing his spikes. A very dangerous situation, indeed. The concussion that Jason La Rue sustained in the brawl would ultimately cost him the remainder of his baseball career.

What happens next angers Cardinals fans to this very day. Johnny Cueto was allowed to stay in the game.

Perhaps there is something to the notion of karma. Cueto would end up taking the loss, and the Cardinals would pull even with the Reds after this emotional victory. An dominating afternoon win by Adam Wainwright on the following day would give the Cardinals a sweep of the series, and a one game lead in the division. Sadly, it would be their last one as a disappointing homestand followed by a brutal road trip through Washington, Houston and Pittsburgh ended all playoff hopes for the 2010 season.

But that’s not the real end to this story.

A Slap on the Wrist

Major League Baseball was about to take punitive action against several Cardinals and Reds players and their managers.

The first failure of Major League Baseball happened immediately following the brawl. In the Roseboro incident, Shag Crawford wasted little time ejecting Juan Marichal. We will never know if he would have done the same to Roseboro because the Dodgers catcher had to leave the game due to injuries sustained in the attack.

Neither home plate umpire, Mark Wegner, nor crew chief Jeff Kellogg took any action towards Johnny Cueto. He was allowed to stay in the game, which in retrospect might have been a good thing for the Cardinals. He was clearly rattled and the Redbirds hitters were able to take advantage of that. Mark Wegner did eject both managers: Tony La Russa (St. Louis) and Dusty Baker (Cincinnati).

Next came the suspensions. Both managers were suspended for two games. It was the suspension for Cueto that raised eyebrows in Cardinals Nation. The big right-hander was given a seven game suspension for his “violent and aggressive actions.” All three were fined an undisclosed amount, as were Brandon Phillips, Yadier Molina, Russ Springer and Chris Carpenter. In case you are wondering about Springer’s fine, it was because he was still on the disabled list, and was not eligible to be on the field when the brawl took place.

Any way you look at this, Johnny Cueto got off with just a slap on the wrist. A seven game suspension meant that he would only miss one start. While the League Office did not know that Jason La Rue’s concussion was career ending, they did know that he had been placed on the disabled list immediately after the game. If the Commissioner were trying to apply the Roseboro Incident here, he really missed the mark. Juan Marichal was suspended for nine games when he took a baseball bat to the helmeted head of John Roseboro. He was also prohibited from making the final road trip to Los Angeles, which forced the Giants to rearrange their rotation to accommodate the ruling. In addition, Roseboro only missed a few games and never went on the disabled list. Even more infuriating was the part that Roseboro played in instigating the confrontation in 1965, which would have been taken into consideration in Marichal’s punishment. The only thing La Rue did was try to get between Cueto and his teammate, Chris Carpenter.

On the subject of fines, even though the one to Cueto was not disclosed, we can make some guesses relative to the one handed out to Marichal. The Giants hurler was fined $1,750, which was approximately 3% of his salary for the 1965 season. Marichal was an established star at the time and was earning the pay you would expect from a top player of his era. In 2010, Cueto was earning a league minimum of $445,000. 3% of that would be $13,300, and that is probably close to what he was actually fined. That amount would be consistent with other players whose fines were made public.

But let’s look at this another way. Cueto just signed a five year deal to avoid his arbitration years. That deal is paying him $3.4M for 2011. 3% of that would be a whopping $102,000. When was the last time you heard a player being fined anywhere near this amount ?

While there were some similarities between the Roseboro and Cueto incident (pennant race, a player using their equipment to injure another), there were some striking differences. Johnny Cueto was not provoked like Juan Marichal. Marichal also stopped hitting Roseboro when he saw that he was bleeding from under his batting helmet. Cueto kept on kicking until the scrum of players broke up.

The biggest difference between these two events is the power that the MLB Player’s Union carries. In 1965, the union was weak, relative to the team owners. As a result, baseball decisions coming out of the League Office tended to favor the position of the owners, not the players. Things were changing quickly, the union was not in the power chair quite yet. A ripple effect of this is that umpires were not shy in taking control of situations on the baseball field.

In 2010, the players union carries much more clout. The implication is that the League Office will not do anything to upset them, and put a future collective bargaining agreement in jeopardy. Umpires, except perhaps Bob Davidson, are less likely to take control of events in a baseball game, relying instead on filing a detailed report and letting somebody else make the decision about what to do, and whom to fine.

Tough Guys, Big Hearts

There must be something truly special about catchers. John Roseboro originally sued Juan Marichal, but later settled for a much reduced amount without going to court. That was later put behind the two men as Roseboro acknowledged his part in the event and subsequently forgave Marichal for his actions. They two became friends, and their story ends with Marichal delivering the eulogy at Roseboro’s funeral.

The last we heard from Jason La Rue was that the effects from the concussion were still persistent and making his daily life difficult. He also indicated that he has no plans on seeking any civil litigation as a result of Cueto’s attack, preferring to put the matter behind him. That’s already several steps down the path that Marichal and Roseboro took. Mr. Cueto, the ball is now in your court.

Bob Netherton covers Cardinals history for i70baseball.com and writes at On the Outside Corner. You may follow Bob on Twitter here or on Facebook here.

Mike over at Cards Droppings does a great job breaking down the series as they come up. We are glad to share that information with you here on I-70 and ask you to click the link at the bottom of the article to read the rest of the material on the home site.

After a quick 3 games in 28 hours, the Cardinals move on to take on their bitter rivals, the Cincinnati Reds. There are so many subplots here. Let’s take a look at just a few of them:

• Johnny “Karate” Cueto basically ended Jason LaRue’s career last year after his infamous kick-assault on our backup catcher.
• The Cardinals fired Walt Jocketty, and he’s now the general manager of the Reds. He absolutely has every right to want to beat the Cardinals after he was shoved out of an organization to which he brought so much success.
• Johnny Gomes, after hearing about the Adam Wainwright injury this spring, reportedly was celebrating in the Reds’ spring training clubhouse. He denies this, but knowing Gomes, I am sure that the reports of him being amped up were spot on.
• Scott Rolen was basically pushed out of town due to his failed relationship with Tony LaRussa. Although he’s out for game one of this series, it’s certain that Rolen LOVES giving his old team trouble whenever he can.
• Troublemaker Brandon Phillips has been tweeting like crazy ripping on St. Louis: ”My teammates ask me if I knew where some good places 2 eat at in St. Louis! I said, “Yea, come with me 2 the store 2 get some Lunchables!” and “Just landed in St. Louis! Sad face… But these wins will make me happy! On our way 2 the hotel & I hope its not Hilton at the BallPark! Lol”
• Mike Leake turned into a petty thief recently, stealing $60 worth of shirts at Macy’s. Matt Sebek, over at JoeSportsFan.com, has done a brilliant job of getting us ready for this series. He’s come up with an awesome shirt to taunt Reds fans. Read all about it here.

Read the rest of Mike’s breakdown of the series by clicking here.

As the Cincinnati Reds prepare to make their first trip to Busch stadium in the 2011 season, it is time to take another look at the unfortunate events that took place at Great American Ballpark on August 10, 2010. A late season pennant race between the St. Louis Cardinals and Cincinnati Reds turned tragic when Yadier Molina took exception to some things that Brandon Phillips had said the previous day. The two proud baseball players yelled at each other, some of it happening with their faces separated by mere inches. The two benches would soon empty and the ensuing scrum brought Johnny Cueto of the Reds into contact with Chris Carpenter and Jason La Rue of the Cardinals, and the results were disastrous for La Rue.

When it came time for Major League Baseball to take action, the Roseboro incident was cited as a precedent for their ruling. In the first part of this series, we will take a look back at that infamous moment in baseball history.

August 20, 1965

The events that led up to Juan Marichal striking Johnny Roseboro with his bat actually started in the middle of this Friday night game in San Francisco. The Giants and Los Angeles Dodgers were battling for the National League Pennant, with the Giants 1 1/2 games out. Thanks to a Willie Mays home run and a successful squeeze bunt, the Giants had built up an early 4-1 lead. Things got interesting when Maury Wills stepped up to bat to start the fifth inning.

Maury Wills was one of those types of players that made things happen. Sometimes it could really get under the skin of the opposition, and this was one of those times. He took a very long and slow swing, coming in contact with catcher, Tom Haller’s glove. The home plate umpire immediately ruled catchers interference and Wills was awarded first base. The Dodgers failed to capitalize on this controversial call, but that was not the end of the matter.

When the Giant’s Matty Alou, another player who could get under the opposition’s skin, led off the next inning, he tried the same trick that Wills had done moments earlier. The home plate umpire ruled that Alou’s bat did not come in contact with Johnny Roseboro’s catcher’s mitt, negating an interference call. The Giants were furious about the Alou non-call, claiming that the umpires were favoring the Dodgers. Roseboro was furious because Alou caused him to take a fastball in the chest protector. The Giants would go on to win the game, but the issue was far from settled.

August 22, 1965

With 1 1/2 games separating the two teams, Juan Marichal and Sandy Koufax would meet in the Sunday afternoon series finale. Both pitchers were having exceptional seasons. Koufax had won 21 games thus far, while losing just four. Marichal had just won his 19th game a few days earlier, and was looking to go over the 20 win mark for the third consecutive season.

It didn’t take long for the tempers to flare in this game. Marichal was still fuming over the officiating earlier in the series. When Maury Wills stepped up to the plate to start the game, Marichal sent a clear message that he was not going to put up with anything out of the Dodgers’ shortstop. He threw a high and tight fastball that put Wills on his backside. Undaunted, Wills fired back by laying a beautiful bunt down the third base line. The first two shots across the bow had been fired.

Things turned even more tense when Marichal knocked down the next batter, Jim Gilliam. With that message delivered, Marichal tried to turn his attention back to the game, but got into a bit of trouble. He would give up a run in each of the first two innings, the second ironically on a Johnny Roseboro single.

When Juan Marichal came up to the plate, things turned ugly, but not in a way that anybody expected.

Johnny Roseboro called for an inside knock down pitch, but that was not how Sandy Koufax played the game. Perhaps if it was a position player, but even then, that was not how Koufax went about his business. On a low curveball to Marichal, Roseboro dropped the ball which allowed him to get up and walk behind Marichal. He then threw the ball back to Koufax uncharacteristically hard, and quite close to Marichal’s head. Depending on which account of the story you believe, it either buzzed by closely or actually clipped Marichal in the ear. Regardless, it enraged Marichal and he confronted Roseboro.

If you want to see what happens next, here is the actual game video – but please be advised, there are a several disturbing and graphic moments.

Before continuing, it is important to know that Johnny Roseboro was a great catcher, but more than that, he was one of baseball’s toughest players. He would courageously block home plate with runners bearing down on him without as much as blinking. I remember a game when Mike Shannon, in full stride, hit Roseboro, and it was Shannon that went bouncing off in another direction.

Roseboro leaving the game (photo by Neil Liefer)

When the players were finally separated, the resulting scalp cut from Marichal’s attack left Roseboro bleeding rather badly. Willie Mays escorted the injured Roseboro off the field so that he could be taken to the Dodgers training room. The Dodgers’ catcher would require several stitches to close the wound on his forehead, and would be diagnosed with a concussion. As a result, he would miss the next two games, although he did travel with the team to New York. By August 25, he was back behind the plate, no worse for the wear. Roseboro was a very tough baseball player.

Although he protested vigorously, Juan Marichal was immediately ejected from the game. The league office would decide what additional punishment was warranted over the next several days.

Punishment

The commissioner would eventually suspend Marichal for 9 games, plus the final series of the season between San Francisco and Los Angeles. For those last two games, he was barred from even traveling with the team to Los Angeles. In addition to those 11 games, he was fined $1,750, or about 3 percent of his annual salary.

Many fans, especially those in Los Angeles, were angered over the perceived light punishment that Marichal received. The 9 game suspension worked out to just two missed starts. Giants manager, Herman Franks, used Marichal on just two days in Chicago, just so the Los Angeles travel ban would not cost him another start.

The true punishment for Marichal came much later, when it was time for his induction into baseball’s Hall of Fame. In spite of being one of the best pitchers of his era, winning more games than any other pitcher in the decade of the 1960′s, he would not be invited into Cooperstown until 1983, three full years after the start of his eligibility. Roseboro might have had a big part to play in that too, but we’re getting slightly ahead of ourselves.

The Giant Meltdown ?

Historians often cite the Roseboro incident as a turning point in the 1965 season. Marichal and the Giants were hot on the Dodgers heels, and those two (plus perhaps one later) start Marichal missed might have been the difference between San Francisco or Los Angeles going to the World Series. While that would be a storybook ending to the season, that’s not how things actually happened.

The Giants would keep winning, in spite of Marichal’s suspension. They would even win both remaining games against the Dodgers, with Juan Marichal safely tucked away in San Francisco. As late as September 16, they held a 4 1/2 game lead in the National League.

The difference in the 1965 season was a 13 game Dodgers winning streak, largely on the arms of Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale, Johnny Podres and Ron Perranoski. It had nothing to do with Marichal, and the Giants didn’t collapse. The Dodgers just ran away with it, as the Cardinals had done with Cincinnati the previous year.

Civil Suit and Forgiveness

Disappointed with the light punishment handed down from the commissioner, Johnny Roseboro filed a civil suit against Marichal for $110,000. That suit was later settled out of court for $7,000. The matter was settled, or so we thought. What happens next surprised everybody.

Johnny Roseboro did what a lot of people might not have been able to do, he forgave Marichal. Perhaps it was because his actions played a big part in that terrible event, or he was just a really good person; the two were able to put that unfortunate event behind and become friends.

Marichal a Dodger ?

Things got very interesting in Los Angeles when Juan Marichal, now 37 years old and in the tail end of his career, signed a free agent contract with the Los Angeles Dodgers. He only appeared in two games that season, one of them in Dodger Stadium. Johnny Roseboro made a plea with the fans in attendance to forgive Marichal and accept him as a Dodger. Marichal even wore Roseboro’s number, on the former catcher’s insistence.

There were no hard feelings on my part, and I thought if that
was made public, people would believe that this was really over
with. So I saw him at a Dodger old-timers' game, and we posed
for pictures together, and I actually visited him in the Dominican.
The next year, he was in the Hall of Fame. 

Hey, over the years, you learn to forget things. --Johnny Roseboro

After Baseball

After baseball, the two became close friends. Roseboro may have even had a hand in Marichal’s induction into the Hall of Fame when he wrote letters to Baseball Writes’ Association of America (BBWAA), urging them to reconsider their opposition to the former Giants pitcher. On the third ballot, Marichal received enough votes, and was finally inducted in 1983. The two would frequently show up at old-timers events, and Roseboro would travel back to the Dominican Republic to play in Marichal’s charity golf events. Perhaps the most touching moment came in 2002, when Marichal delivered an emotional eulogy at Roseboro’s funeral.

Next time we will take a look back at August 10, 2010, and see how the two incidents were similar, and where they were drastically different.

Bob Netherton covers Cardinals history for i70baseball.com and writes at On the Outside Corner. You may follow Bob on Twitter here or on Facebook here.

The biggest story of June could be decisions facing the club regarding whether or not to call up any of their top prospects. Rookies called up in June or after do not qualify for “super two” status, thus delaying arbitration eligibility down the line. It will be an exciting month if one or more of the heralded prospects make their debut.

Besides that, the second half of the month will be entirely inter-league with series against the Cardinals, Diamondbacks, Cubs and Padres.

June Breakdown:

Total Games: 27

Home: 15

Road: 12

Vs teams with winning records in 2010: 14

Vs teams with losing records in 2010: 10

Vs teams in the AL Central: 4

Inter-league games: 12

Key Series:

June 2-5 vs. Minnesota – This is the only series against an AL Central opponent all month, but it will only be a key series if the Royals have a surprising start and are having dreams of contention.

June 17-19 @ St. Louis – After hosting the Cards in May, the Royals head across the state for the second part of the 2011 I-70 series.

Key To a Hot Start:

The first nine games of the month are home games, so the Royals will have to take full advantage of home cooking.

At the end of June:

If the Royals are above .500… The Royals will have beaten up on the National League, something that is not entirely out of the question.

If the Royals are .500… They will have significantly over-achieved.

If the Royals are below .500… No one will be surprised.